Does anyone have documentation on the pros or cons of removing the Diasafe filters from Fresenius 2008H's? Thanks to Curt for his input!

The pros of removing a diasafe filter is purely cost and labor (quarterly PM). If the filters are tested on a regular basis (suppose to be bi-weekly), then the filter will not cause machine issues (for the most part, always exceptions).
The cons are that you lose ultrapure dialysate. Since the dialysate is already AAMI quality, this may not seem like a big deal, but I would keep an eye out. I have seen a lot of articles lately that talk about the benefit that a patient receives from ultrapure dialysate (no endotoxin concerns is a big one) versus AAMI quality dialysate. I hope that this helps.

Let's be real here. I'll give Fresenius the credit that the Diasafe is a good idea.... in theory. However, let's not forget what a Diasafe filter is. F-80 dialyzer right? Okay... now tell me how that 'Diasafe' filter is acting any differently than the dialyzer itself as far as keeping 'impurities' from hitting the patients blood? I bet your probably thinking of convection transferring impurities across the dialyzer membrane right? Well, the diasafe can do exactly the same. And let's not kid ourselves.... the diasafe is a pain in the @$$. I don't know what your paying for them, but I used to pay 25.62 a piece. And the dialyzers were $7.00?? How does that make sense? It's the same thing!! By not having them, not only is it one more thing that you don't have to worry about breaking, but your pumps don't have to work as hard. It's also less pressure in the system so you have less of a chance for leaks. Did I mention getting bad diasafe filters?? I've got MANY of those. I'd have a problem with a machine... track it down to the diasafe filter... change it... only to find that the new one was bad too! Then what... you put in a product complaint and go through that whole process and for what? We don't follow AAMI standards for nothing. If your in compliance in the AAMI dept then you shouldn't NEED a diasafe. If you NEED a diasafe maybe you should be checking the rest of your equipment. That's the way I feel about it, but it's only MY opinion. I would recommend removing them. Looking at it from a treatment standpoint, I've seen both with and without Diasafe and have seen no difference. Also... what's that called when there is an area in a hydraulic circuit that receives little or no flow... deadspace dare I say?? Just my opinion.....

quote:

Originally posted by Fres Guy:
The pros of removing a diasafe filter is purely cost and labor (quarterly PM). If the filters are tested on a regular basis (suppose to be bi-weekly), then the filter will not cause machine issues (for the most part, always exceptions).
The cons are that you lose ultrapure dialysate. Since the dialysate is already AAMI quality, this may not seem like a big deal, but I would keep an eye out. I have seen a lot of articles lately that talk about the benefit that a patient receives from ultrapure dialysate (no endotoxin concerns is a big one) versus AAMI quality dialysate. I hope that this helps.

I would like know where I can get some of those $7.00 F80's. I would like a truck load.

BRAVO GTS,
The diasafe filter is Fresenius marketing at it's best. What better way to lock in guaranteed sales than to offer a "free" upgrade when you purchase machines. In theory it is a good idea but personally I think a well maintained water treatment system with some top rate UF filters beats a dialyzer mounted in the cabinet.

My mistake, I haven't been with Fresenius for a few months now and I was thinking of the Optiflux 160's (Brain fart).... oops! My point was that the diasafe is just a dialyzer under there. Sorry if I got your hopes up. Allow me to correct myself. Was it $18.00 for the F80's? (I bet the Administrator would give you a BIG raise with the CPT figures you gave him with the F80's at $7.00, huh?)

quote:

Originally posted by Honey:
I would like know where I can get some of those $7.00 F80's. I would like a truck load.

I might get a raise if I could even get the Optiflux NR 160 for $7.00!
Thanks for the heart surge anyway.

Are you with Fresenius? How much are you currently paying??

quote:

Originally posted by Honey:
I might get a raise if I could even get the Optiflux NR 160 for $7.00!
Thanks for the heart surge anyway.

I am not an FMC employee. I pay 10.50 for 160NR's.

WE DON'T HAVE DIASAFE FILTERS BUT ONE OF THE CLINICS THAT WE ARE ASSOC. WITH DO. WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BUILDING A NEW CLINIC AND WILL BE GETTING THE NEW K MACHINES. OUR AREA TECHNICIAL MANAGER DOES NOT WANT THE FILTERS IN OUR NEW MACHINES HE SAYS THAT THE ONE K MACHINE THAT THEY HAVE IN AUSTIN BREAKS DOWN MORE THAN THE ONES W/O THE FILTER.HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT HAVING IT IS OVERKILL. I PERSONALLY CAN NOT TELL YOU THE PROS AND CONS THIS IS JUST THE FEEDBACK I GET FROM HIM.

That's probably why... you're an outside customer. Also, if you don't by in high volumes (e.g. you only have a few patients using them) you won't get as good a discount. When I was with Fresenius we used to order about 40-50 cases a week if not more. Furthermore, mgunsolus.... the K's have had a few bugs that have yet to be worked out. The new DA pump heads are kinda poorly made and tend to go out rather quickly (I had one go out with less than 500 hrs). So if you have problems keep an eye on the heads too. Did they ever get the OLC/conductivity problem fixed with the K's?

quote:

Originally posted by Honey:
I am not an FMC employee. I pay 10.50 for 160NR's.

quote:

Originally posted by prov:
Does anyone have documentation on the pros or cons of removing the Diasafe filters from Fresenius 2008H's? Thanks to Curt for his input!

this is a foreign subject to me that i would like to know more about...we're paying $30 per f-80 and throwing ALOT away. help!!

bcreeklisa, If you are throwing a lot away you may want to consider the F70NR for non reuse. Check with your salesrep. They can help you calculate the cost on reuse in your facility.

quote:

Originally posted by Honey:
bcreeklisa, If you are throwing a lot away you may want to consider the F70NR for non reuse. Check with your salesrep. They can help you calculate the cost on reuse in your facility.

Also... when considering going to non-reuse don't just look at the CPT figures (cost per treatment). Take into account the wages of a reuse tech, supplies for reuse (renalin/formaldehyde, gloves, gown, STEL/TWA badges, etc.) reuse equipment, training for reuse techs etc... I brought this up when one of the facilities I was at was considering stopping reuse and this helped push them over the line. I've been in the bad reuse numbers situation before and it was heaven when we went to non reuse.

[This message has been edited by GTSCSS (edited 02-17-2003).]

There is a significant body of literature (mostly from europe) that suggests that filtered dialysate reduces immune response in HD patients, and thereby reduces long-term complications such as amyloidosis and possibly, CHD.

Before removing the diasafe filters (and I wouldn't without the approval of the Medical Director) I would try reducing the load on them by filtering the water and bicarbonate concentrate. Minntech makes Fibercor filters which are appropriate and economical for this purpose.