We will be starting to evaluate the Braun, Fresenius, and Gambro machines in a few weeks. Does anyone have some type of evaluation tool or form that you would be willing to share?

Chuck

No "tool" per se, only experience with BBraun Dialogs and Fresenius. ( BBrauns >5 years, Fresenius-seems like forever). The BBrauns are reliable and easy to PM, though they do seem to have software glitches which are unexplainable. However, when problems do occur, much bettertech support when compared to Fresenius <smirk>.

I agree with Newest Guy. We have both B/Bruan advanced and Plus'. My experience has been with C3's. B/Braun is not bad compared to those.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck W:
We will be starting to evaluate the Braun, Fresenius, and Gambro machines in a few weeks. Does anyone have some type of evaluation tool or form that you would be willing to share?

Chuck

How can you evaluate Gambro machine when there are none to evaluate???

I would recommend to your supervisor not to waste time evaluating machines when the B Braun Dialog Plus is the obvious choice. They have a machine that is trouble free, and their tech support is fast and effective. Your tool is this message board. Recommend the B Braun product and don't waste any time.

Phoenix machines are available in the US for evaluation/trial. Parts and current US Inventory of machines is not an issue. Current import ban is just for machines coming in (off the boat). Last I heard is this "ban" should be ending soon?? Sale Reps. have "demo" equipment for evaluation.

Sue,

As "Phoenix" said, machines are available for evaluation though no one is saying when the plant issues in Italy will be resolved and the ban lifted, the Swede's don't like to be told they did something wrong.

ashepherd,

Here are my opinions on all 3 machines:
Fresenius K - Not much more than an H machine with more bells and whistles. The hydraulics are virtually the same with the same issues that have never been addressed.

Phoenix - Bicarts are nice, but expensive! My understanding is that they use a bloodline set similar to the Cobe so you are locked in to a single supplier, which relates to higher costs.

B Braun - We looked at one a few years ago and technically it looked very easy to work on. The multiple screens you had to navigate through made it very user UNfriendly. The machine seriously lacks market share, is it over-priced or just not as good as you say? No matter the reason, it makes me wonder if it will be around for the long haul.

Chuck

What are you replacing? I have heard that Baxter wants all of their machine out of the clinics. They had made a deal with Gambro before the Phoenix import ban that gave the customer excellent pricing and since the ban, they have made a deal with BBraun. We bought the Dialog and staff like it.

Joy,

We are replacing Baxter/Althin Tina's. The Baxter buy-back of machines was for the Meridian, even though they no longer manufactured it they still have to support it for 7 years and there just were not enough of them in the field to justify it.

Is there anything in particular that the staff like about the Dialog?

Chuck

Chuck W, the B Braun Dialog Plus has a large pivoting color LCD display monitor with easy touch icons. The staff here says it is very user friendly, one of many positive attributes of this machine.

Chuck- Bicarts are nice...you can still use central delivery (bicarb and acid with Phoenix system)so you'll avoid purchasing bicart$. Once you try them you will want to keep using Bicarts (very clean and easy = zero labor + no cultures for bicarb loops or jugs). You are correct the Phoenix does use the same bloodlines as the C3- pricing is volume driven- no matter who you buy from. Cheap- is just that cheap. Purchasing from "the manufacturer" usually has better QA- overall- spin off product is CRAP!!!

Regardless of what is posted...the main issue is dealing with "change"...Many posters here have a big issue with "change".

Phoenix in my opinion gets two thumbs up!

Fresenius 2008H and K's are in my opinion, the best overall user friendly and biomed friendly, parts are not nearly as expensive as C3, phoenix machines. Plus the Fresenius machines dont have those god awfull alarm noises like the c3 and phoenix machines.lol. Doing Maintenance once a year 2 me seems like it will cause further more breakdowns,seen it. But then again, im sure there is pro's and cons with everyones opinion on the machines.

I wouldn't use the Fresesunic machines, I read in here how bad thay was compared to the Grambo Pheenix machines. those Grambo machines don't break down and don't need PMs like the Fresesnuis machines do. Don't get the brawns either they are hard to use.

Dialysis machines are dialysis machines. A true biomed equipment tech can adapt and change to whatever the management and doctors want to use. These machines are all basically the same, you just have to get used to the bells and whistles and put up with the small nuances that are apart of any profession that deals with electro-mechanical equipment like these machines. The reason you see so much about Fresenius machines is because there are so many out here. It all boils down to, what are you comfortable maintaining and much are you willing to learn and change your day-to-dayt routine. Cast my vote-Fresenius K.

true that chassinbubbles, just cant stand the alarm noises from the c3, probably just wasnt use to it.